Request/Petition for Edgar Froese Instructional DVD's

24db · Post by **24db** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 7:37 pm

couldn't disagree more., musician and artist, totally the same, speaking as somebody who's done both. Just my opinion though

Hipgnosis · Post by **Hipgnosis** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:31 pm

Hi,

It's an analogy ... but it does separate two different folks ...

Europe with it's many music and art scenes has an advantage on these things over America ... and here comes a story ...

In the late 60's there was this "minimalist" movement in theater and film ... it was a fun, experimental and crazy time ... everything was different and certainly did not look like your high school play!

In the early days of synthesizers, part of the learning was to make them do things that were similar to our ears ... thus moises, the sounds of this and that and some instruments were the first things to come out. I still have Beaver & Krause LP and remember their version of the 2001 (Straus/Zara) which was really cool.

In a way it took Walter/Wendy Carlos to help make the synths fun and "musical" although there already were many other folks playing it and doing different things with it ...

And something else ... there had been, and still was ... an art scene that thought that "noise" and everything in and under the kitchen sink was also "musical" in its own way. ... and part of this fun were those wild and crazy loons called "Faust" ... that took that thought to the ultimate degree and .... really ... it is fun to listen to even if crazy and totally senseless ... but you can make fun of non-sense if you want ... is the case and lesson.

Even Tangerine Dream ... kinda started out that way some ... a part of the art scne perhaps, although I think that they already had an idea what they wanted to do .... even then. And it wasn't playing with toasters and washing machines!

I thought the breaking point was ... ZEIT (TD) and CYBORG (KS) ... and it was obvious now that something more "melodic" (how original!) ... was going to be the next implementation for these instruments ... results are that these days ... few people even explore "noise" anymore ...

The point of all this, from studying with actors and speculating on the "noise" arts ... that when you have nothing, you can always do something ... many actors freak out in the dark, when they can not see the next person or who they are talkign to ... many musicians freak if they can not do that chop, or do that sone ... many think they are not talented because they can not finger the diminutive 57 falt back flip! And want more lessons and figure out how to do it ... the "way of the world" is to do something new and different ... create new music ... feel a new space ... and some folks did ... and others did not!

I have to tell you something about that time ... I loved it ... and you know what? I miss the "noise" ... you know why? It was free form, had no rhyme or reason, had no notions or pre-conceived ideasd and thoughts ... where as "music" as we define it today ... is always in a "classical sense" ... and never "itself". Thus a lot of that era is neglected and ignored ... but then, I did not think that Heinemann or Stockhausen were 1/100 as good as Tangerine Dream or Klaus Schulze either ... and yet they are "more accepted" ... although I pray and hope that this changes.

Noise is fun ... it helps you define "you" ... it takes the pre-conceived notions, including "scales and tones" and you are then capable of teaching yourself how to feel and understand your feel ... which you can then translate into notes with a finger here there and everywhere ... not necessarily some prescribed scale or what not ... it is a process that is much more "intuitive" ... and I don't mean the play preset intuition found in computer programs and instruments this day ... how can it be intuitive if it is already pre-thought and done? It's not!

Define yourself through you instrument. If you can.

24db · Post by **24db** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 8:38 pm

meet me down at the Zodiak Free Arts Lab at 11.00pm...mine's a pint of alte beer

synthman1 · Post by **synthman1** » Mon Mar 02, 2009 10:21 pm

The last few post are excellent points to made from the creative side of producing music. No one can teach you how to be inspired in order to make music, how creative and talented you are or how much effort and practice you put into to develop your craft.

That isnt the purpose or focus of the request for the informational DVDs. Its from the technical "how to" side of it. The mixing, mastering, live performance configuration and set up side of it. Maybe even tips and pointer on how to market your music as examples.

Knowing what Edgar ate for breakfast, what motivate him to create music or why he does what he does stylistically isnt what this request is about. How he records and produces music and gets his compostitions to sound commercially good is.

Serious artists go to art school to learn and develop their craft. Doctor go to med school and yes, many musicians go to school as well for a whole host of training whether its composition, recording engineers or mastering.

Today those different avenues have branched out from just brick and mortar places of education to on-line courses and instructional DVDs.

If you wanted to produce music commercially, for film and game scoring, writing jingles or even just for a hobby which is what most do, the more you know technically only makes the end results that much better.

People pay to hear Donald Trump talk about buying real estate because he an expert. People buy the Dali Lamas book because he is a spirtual expert. Well the same holds true for Edgar Froese - he is an expert at producing electronic music. People such as myself would like to learn from him and even fans who arent musicians would enjoy and be fascinated with being able to peel back the skin and see the process rather than just the end result as a few have indicated.

alipaul · Post by **alipaul** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 5:45 pm

I think he's far too busy to get involved this, try CF

synthman1 · Post by **synthman1** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 7:16 pm

I think he's far too busy to get involved this, try CF

A lot of people keep saying this. It very well may be true, but I dont know how you arrived at this conclusion? Isnt he writing a book? How does he find time for that? Doesnt he create art work as well, how does he find time to do it? I would agree EF is one of the hardest working and prolific musician alive, but come on, even EF gets on a plane to go vacation somewhere from time to time.

This is why it would be great to know formally what the position is on it rather than assume or guess.

There is no doubt based on the output of TD its structured more like a business enterprise with daily operation than how a traditional band works which is make a CD, tour to support it, than take a long break to recoup.

TD fundamentally doesnt operate like this anymore since producing their own music and label. They dont have to work with expensive producers or hand over the bulk of sales revenue or deal with high studio rental costs. Having their own studio and label affords them the luxury of well, producing music from 9-5 and doing only targeted shows to supplement income and more importantly produce and sell live DVDs from them.

However it’s a business and like most businesses they have to produce products or services like music CDs, live DVDs (or maybe even technical information and software products for musicians –just saying

) to cover their operating costs and margins for sure. So why not expand upon it?

Michael66 · Post by **Michael66** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:32 pm

So far I haven't been much interested in TD live DVD's, but I'd immediately order an "Edgar Froese gives a tour through the TD studio" DVD.

24db · Post by **24db** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:48 pm

Michael66 wrote:So far I haven't been much interested in TD live DVD's, but I'd immediately order an "Edgar Froese gives a tour through the TD studio" DVD.

I recently asked for a photo of Edgar's studio and I was told he treats it like his Bedroom...I guess they meant it's private for him. So the chances of a whole DVD 'live from the Eastgate studio' is very low. Shame though, as I'm nosey as the next person....perhaps even more?

alipaul · Post by **alipaul** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 8:50 pm

synthman1 wrote:
I think he's far too busy to get involved this, try CF
A lot of people keep saying this. It very well may be true, but I dont know how you arrived at this conclusion? Isnt he writing a book? How does he find time for that? Doesnt he create art work as well, how does he find time to do it? I would agree EF is one of the hardest working and prolific musician alive, but come on, even EF gets on a plane to go vacation somewhere from time to time.

This is why it would be great to know formally what the position is on it rather than assume or guess.

There is no doubt based on the output of TD its structured more like a business enterprise with daily operation than how a traditional band works which is make a CD, tour to support it, than take a long break to recoup.

TD fundamentally doesnt operate like this anymore since producing their own music and label. They dont have to work with expensive producers or hand over the bulk of sales revenue or deal with high studio rental costs. Having their own studio and label affords them the luxury of well, producing music from 9-5 and doing only targeted shows to supplement income and more importantly produce and sell live DVDs from them.

However it’s a business and like most businesses they have to produce products or services like music CDs, live DVDs (or maybe even technical information and software products for musicians –just saying ) to cover their operating costs and margins for sure. So why not expand upon it?

Maybe he's working & enjoying his life good on him

synthman1 · Post by **synthman1** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 10:21 pm

So far I haven't been much interested TD live DVD's, but I'd immediately order an "Edgar Froese gives a tour through the TD studio" DVD

I recently asked for a photo of Edgar's studio and I was told he treats it like his Bedroom...I guess they meant it's private for him.

Well, there you go! Yeah, I mean having the final output is great dont get me wrong - thats the most important aspect. When it comes to electronic music though, there are other aspects of interest like the gear, technology and process. When TD plays live, aside from what they play, everyone wants to know what gear and keyboards they were using and the technology behind how the show is put together.

Its like movies. We all love movies right? But we also like the documenties, the behind the scene process stuff, we dont want to just see the monster on the screen, but how the monster was built and how it works. Some of us are more interested in those aspects than the actual movie itself!

There are thousands of people who compose and produce electronic music with synthesizers, sequencers and audio mastering hardware and software. Its safe to say, many know how its done, musician or not. (If you dont know, I'll be more than happy to tell you, its not hocus-pocus magic.)

Just like movies, we know there is a director and cameramen and a green screen, but we still love to watch that stuff and get the details in the "extras' on the DVD especially when it comes from your favorite actor, director or FX artist...

Jarre has been fairly open about that kind of stuff in some of his DVDs-documenties and behind the scene stuff, but still not down to a details process point of view as an information guide. He's another one I would love to learn the technical process side of it.

alipaul · Post by **alipaul** » Wed Mar 04, 2009 11:33 pm

maybe this could go on as an extra on dvd maybe how they prepare for a gig

Chris Monk · Post by **Chris Monk** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 1:14 am

24db wrote:
Michael66 wrote:So far I haven't been much interested in TD live DVD's, but I'd immediately order an "Edgar Froese gives a tour through the TD studio" DVD.
I recently asked for a photo of Edgar's studio and I was told he treats it like his Bedroom...I guess they meant it's private for him. So the chances of a whole DVD 'live from the Eastgate studio' is very low. Shame though, as I'm nosey as the next person....perhaps even more?

I hope it's not like my boys bedrooms. You can't see the carpet for toys. They tidy them once a year, usually Christmas Eve, by sweeping everything under their beds.

synthman1 · Post by **synthman1** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:19 am

maybe this could go on as an extra on dvd maybe how they prepare for a gig

Having "extras" on a DVD is different than the request for instructional or technical vids. I dont want to loose sight of that, but sure, having behind the scene documentaries and processes would be great too!

Many bands are starting to this more and more just like documenting movie production and its a good thing. Fans love that stuff as much as the end products.

Chris Monk · Post by **Chris Monk** » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:32 am

synthman1 wrote:
maybe this could go on as an extra on dvd maybe how they prepare for a gig
Having "extras" on a DVD is different than the request for instructional or technical vids. I dont want to loose sight of that, but sure, having behind the scene documentaries and processes would be great too!

Many bands are starting to this more and more just like documenting movie production and its a good thing. Fans love that stuff as much as the end products.

I love those things, I've got quite a few now and they are one of things I watch the most.

As mentioned at the start of the thread I've been watching the Frost* "Experiments in Mass Appeal" DVD which shows, in small chunks, pretty much the whole recording process, from the writing through to the mastering.

It even shows keyboard player Jem Godfrey programming up his keyboards for the live show which is a real eye-opener and something that has made me appreciate what is happening at TD gigs a lot more.

I'd love TD to do something similar but fully appreciate that Edgar must be one of the busiest men in Rock/Prog/EM and that it's unlikely to happen.

Easiest thing in the world to do though, just stick up a small video camera in the studio and occasional speak to it.

Froesesque · Post by **Froesesque** » Sun Mar 08, 2009 11:36 pm

As an electronic musician myself I would love to peep on one of Edgars studio sessions just for some good tips on using the equpiment, finding the best ASIO sound drivers to run softsynths on PC's and stuff like that!!