Request/Petition for Edgar Froese Instructional DVD's

[synthman1]

Much of Tangerine Dreams fan base is also made up of a lot of other EM musicians who were/are influenced by Tangerine Dream and other forebears of electronic music. It would be an invaluable resource for Edgar Froese to developed a series of instructional DVDs on composition, recording, mixing, mastering and live performance for other EM musicians and fans alike. I’m very surprised he hasn’t already done so to be honest given who he is what he offers to the music community.

When it comes to recording and mastering electronic music, there simply is no one better than Edgar Froese and no one better to share his wealth of knowledge on the process, tips and execution of composing, recording and mastering music with electronic music equipment. (You can include J Schmoelling and C Franke in that category as well).

It simply boggles the mind - not just how much music TD has actually created (I’ve been a fan since the 80s and haven’t even heard it all), but how consistent the recording production value is and the speed at which they do so. Given how prolific they are, there really is little information on the processes and techniques from musicianship perspective.

It would be a shame and great loss if Edgar was to retire or pass on and not have his musical insight and general knowledge techniques archived and publicly shared with us fellow musicians (and fans of course) to learn and gain insight from. EF is an expert at this and people would pay to learn from his knowledge and experience. I’m not requesting this for free of course.

I’m not sure if EF monitors this board or if suggestions are passed along. I know some of the hardcore fans do meet and greets with Edgar and the band after show. Could someone ask Edgar about this and let us know?

Also does anyone know of such video tutorials from other electronic musicians?

[jacob]

Edgar once said in an interview, that what seperates his music from the evergrowing crowd of followers (or wannabes if you like) is that he has a certain 'trick', and I'm sure he'll never reveal it - and it will be an eternal part of the mystery behind the electronic magic.

I'm not a musician, and would not be in the target group with your requested dvd series. However, a look over the shoulders in the recording sessions or live rehearsel would be very interesting!

And welcome to the forum!

[Chris Monk]

Funnily I've recently been watching Frost*'s Experiments in Mass Appeal DVD which has video-blog clips of how the CD was put together and as a non-musician I found it fascinating.

It shows the writing, recording and mastering process in some detail. Basically Jem Godfrey, the cornerstone of Frost*, just left a video camera running in the studio and occasionally did bits to camera. I don't see why TD couldn't do something similar, I'd love to see it.

[Nero]

Edgar will never retire!
I think he has no time to do it - otherwise we would have to wait ages for
new music....
And by the way: I think he gave so much lessons to his son Jerome that
he's fed up now with the role of a teacher!
But I have to admit it would be interesting to watch...

[timer]

Welcome to the forum Synthman1 , and great first post

[synthman1]

Edgar once said in an interview, that what seperates his music from the evergrowing crowd of followers (or wannabes if you like) is that he has a certain 'trick', and I'm sure he'll never reveal it - and it will be an eternal part of the mystery behind the electronic magic.

Thanks all for the warm welcome. (I've actually posted here before, I cant find my login info so I created a new account.)

I can tell you unequivally being a musician, there is no one "trick". It’s a combination of different processes, knowledge and experience that yield end results.

Understanding music creation from a technical aspect is only one piece of the pie, you still require creativity, talent, dexterity, practice, discipline and determination. Music doesnt write itself. To be successful at it you need more than that. To make a living at it, you need to do ever more than just writing great music. A lot of people write great music, few are successful at making a living at it for reasons and circumstances too numerous to list and get into.

I'm sure Edgar and the band have many what they would consider proprietary techniques to achieve their sound and end results. Everyone who create music does. Take the TDQ system, which if I understand it correctly, it is a processing technique or mastering software? Why not sell it if it work that well?

There a still a lot of general technical aspects that can be offered. Again no one is asking for it for free. When you have valuable information or knowledge, people will pay to learn whether it’s music production, web site design/development or financial mastery. I would like to believe that even Edgar Froese subscribes to the philosophical perspective and mind set of sharing his expertise just as most other people do with their own profession to educate others. Edgar Froese has confirmed this happend in his own life when he studied under Salvador Dali. Dali shared his knowledge to benefit and educate others even though he was a great and famous artist.

I have no idea what Edgar Froese position is on the matter. That why I’m asking. I think its fair to say, Edgar Froese is closer to the end of his career than at the beginning (I mean no disrespect by noting this.) TD has had a long, lucrative and successful career. Sharing knowledge or information to benefit or educate others could never change that, but rather expand upon it in broader scope just beyond creating music to include a whole host of applications including education and possibly usable products for musicians.

I would love to learn all I could from Edgar Froese. Hell, I would work for him for free if I could afford to just to learn a fraction of his experience and knowledge.

[24db]

Can't see Edgar doing this...sorry. He's far too busy as it is, although as a business man I'm sure he's considered it before (regular readers may remember that TD wanted to move to Australia in the early 80's to set up a synth/music school, but 'reading between the lines' their anti-war/nukes sympathies put pay to their immigration chances. Shame really, but then again even TD have to deal with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

[hansx]

Can't see Edgar doing this...sorry. He's far too busy as it is, although as a business man I'm sure he's considered it before (regular readers may remember that TD wanted to move to Australia in the early 80's to set up a synth/music school, but 'reading between the lines' their anti-war/nukes sympathies put pay to their immigration chances. Shame really, but then again even TD have to deal with the real world on a day-to-day basis.

Guess so, nevertheless it is a good idea.

[synthman1]

...as a business man I'm sure he's considered it before ... TD wanted to move to Australia in the early 80's to set up a synth/music school, but 'reading between the lines' their anti-war/nukes sympathies put pay to their immigration chances.

If he did this on DVD, he wouldn't have to move anywhere (or worry about anti-war/nukes sympathies?...) After all, we live in the internet age. There are on-line schools, courses and DVD tutorials everywhere.

He could do it series or episode based rather than everything at once. Given Edgar Froese's incredible time management skills, he could bang out a 2-4 hour session in no time. Hell, it probably take him an hour to do a 2 hour lesson.

[Nero]

I think Edgar is too much an artist and an artist is internally forced to create.
He once said in an interview that he's composing every day and can't do
without. There will be maybe no time for teaching.

[epsilon75]

[quote="Nero"]Edgar will never retire!


That in itself is music to my ears

[billythefish]

IIRC the 'trick' that Edgar was referring to was more of a compositional trick than a technical one. Something along the lines of a musical motif borrowed or developed from Bach or Bruckner... that was my reading of it anyway.

As for technical advice, I too would find some insight fascinating. I am not sure if it would come from Edgar though - I have had the impression over the years that the main difference between him and many of his followers is that the technology to Edgar is merely a means-to-an-end whereas to many others, the technology is the end...

Perhaps the various developers, engineers and programmers over the years could be approached to help compile a book or DVD? There must be loads of people at Steinberg, Korg, Waldorf etc. who know loads about the background to many TD releases.

[synthman1]

As for technical advice, I too would find some insight fascinating. I am not sure if it would come from Edgar though - I have had the impression over the years that the main difference between him and many of his followers is that the technology to Edgar is merely a means-to-an-end whereas to many others, the technology is the end...

That may be certainly true for some (I would hate to be the judge or jury on who that actually may be though), but not all or the majority. There are a lot excellent independent musician out there. TD doesnt have a monopoly on great electronic music by any stretch of the imagination. There is no doubt though TD is certainly the Beatles of EM and lot tip their hat to that fact including me.

I say that cautiously, because a lot of things influence artists including other musicians, places, world events and experiences. Much in the same way Edgar Froese has been inspired by his influences, he expresses himself uniquely, just as everyone else who is an artist tries to do or does. They just may be less successful at it.

[Hipgnosis]

I can tell you unequivally being a musician, there is no one "trick". It’s a combination of different processes, knowledge and experience that yield end results.

Creativity is a bitch!

Now that the editorai section has been let go ... we can get down to business of ideas, thoughts and concepts.

We're going to transpose your request ... and see where it gets us ...

We're gonna ask Picasso why he paints.

We're gonna ask Stravinsky why he composes.

We're gonna ask Mozart why he fools around in bars.

And then, we're gonna ask them ... how did they do what they did?

Edgar could be an academic and say ... I played B Minor 57 or a diminished 69 or some academic notation ... like all the other musicians ... but it still does not explain it all does it?

Now we gonna have some fun:

I'm gonna give you a Jupiter 8 ... and me one ... and someone else one. And we're to get a 5 minute piece of music. You might know electronics, and I don't and the third person dabbles in computers. The results are mixed. No answer there either.

So here is my take on it all ...

It matters not what the machine is ... it matters not what the instrument is ... it matters not what day of the week it is ... it matters not that Edgar has 2 tricks up his sleeve.

The only thing that matters is ... YOU ... and YOU ... and your desire/dedication to learning something and take it further ... maybe because the sound you want still does not color the dream you had or the vision you had ... it's about you defining yourself through any instrument ... and I think it's funny that Edgar says that he has a few tricks ... I am more likely to think that he is a better jokester than he gives us credit for ... or shows us.

He may not be the greatest keyboard player of all time (gotta love those Keith fans!) ... but then ... only a handful were able to compose what amounts to a symphony, or the many chamber concert pieces a la Mozart or any other Concertos out there ... these are done with a synth ... no trick there. And there are not many out there that have the "color" to be able to use ANY instrument well enough ... to make themselves comfortable.

It's not about the "music" ... it's not about the "synth" ... it's not about his "lesson" ... it simply, more than anything else ... just a matter of who the man is ... and we should respect and give him that much credit.

I remember David Ossman of the Firesign Theater one time pull a nice fast one ... someone was trying really hard to "make it" and what not ... and he had asked who you have to know, what you have to do ... and Dvid smiles, smoke an invisible cigar and said ... ME ... and what he meant, as is typical of his style was ... YOU HAVE TO KNOW YOURSELF and NOT BE AFRAID to express that SELF.

You have to do the same thing ... you don't need the tricks any more than Edgar needs yours.

If he laughed these comments off .. I really don't blame him. It's his usual Dada/Dali response to everything ... there are no reasons why there are baskets of beans in Gala's breast ... it was just something that happened in his vision that very second ... there is no why or reason ... IT JUST IS.

You just have to be good enough to translate that inner vision out.

[Hipgnosis]

I would love to learn all I could from Edgar Froese. Hell, I would work for him for free if I could afford to just to learn a fraction of his experience and knowledge.

One more thing (sorry ... couldn't help it! those beans I was looking at!)

I often say there is a difference between an artist and a musician. It goes something like this ... the musician plays notes ... the artist plays his heart out.

Yes, it helps sometimes to know the chops and the tricks ... but it won't define YOU ... it will define a copy of someone else.

In my book you gotta a call to make ... who do you wanna be? ... and what you gonna do about it?

People like Edgar/TD?KS/Vangelis/Mike Oldfield ... it's not about the trickery ... it's about what they feel, when, and how they eventually express it ... the rest doesn't matter ... it could be a spoon (a la Vangelis) or it could be a bell (a la Mike) ... or it could be ... (choose your own and insert here) ...