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 Post subject: Green Desert/Pergamon
PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:30 pm 
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I wasn't going to, but I got the 'Green Desert' reissue recently. I liked the title track, I have to say.

It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.

Is it true Pergamon is about to be re-released? I think I have one side of that, from a compilation. I guess I'll get it to hear side 2 :wink:


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 8:32 pm 
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owen wrote:
Is it true Pergamon is about to be re-released?

I have already pre-ordered my copy from CD Services.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Insvims wrote:
owen wrote:
Is it true Pergamon is about to be re-released?

I have already pre-ordered my copy from CD Services.

Top TD live album IMO.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 13, 2012 10:04 pm 
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owen wrote:
It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.

Surely you jest. :shock:

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 6:36 am 
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Chris Monk wrote:
owen wrote:
It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.


Surely you jest. :shock:


As Green Desert is a 1973/1984 hybrid and preceded Underwater which is from 1987, your comment to me does not make sense.

If you are going to get the Live Pergamon from Esoteric when it is issued, I hope for you they do a better job than they did on Poland. Esoteric's Poland to me sounds Cold, Dull, and dead. Not sure why but they may be the only label still using Noise Reduction. IMO any competent remastering specialist stopped using that garbage in the mid 90's. Personally I'd purchase the original Pergamon CD it sounds pretty good , and last time I checked was less than cost of a new Esoteric CD.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 2:36 pm 
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Poland always was a cold album. Esoterics remaster sounds OK to me and in no way sounds lifeless & dull. Personally I find all the Esoteric releases I have (and there are quite a few) very good.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Flashpoint wrote:
Chris Monk wrote:
owen wrote:
It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.


Surely you jest. :shock:


As Green Desert is a 1973/1984 hybrid and preceded Underwater which is from 1987, your comment to me does not make sense.

If you are going to get the Live Pergamon from Esoteric when it is issued, I hope for you they do a better job than they did on Poland. Esoteric's Poland to me sounds Cold, Dull, and dead. Not sure why but they may be the only label still using Noise Reduction. IMO any competent remastering specialist stopped using that garbage in the mid 90's. Personally I'd purchase the original Pergamon CD it sounds pretty good , and last time I checked was less than cost of a new Esoteric CD.

My comment refers specifically to the "gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight" and as such makes perfect sense. Have to say that your comment is pretty inflammatory. By what definition is Underwater Sunlight AOR, or even bland for that matter.

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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:41 am 
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Chris Monk wrote:
Flashpoint wrote:
Chris Monk wrote:
owen wrote:
It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.


Surely you jest. :shock:


As Green Desert is a 1973/1984 hybrid and preceded Underwater which is from 1987, your comment to me does not make sense.

If you are going to get the Live Pergamon from Esoteric when it is issued, I hope for you they do a better job than they did on Poland. Esoteric's Poland to me sounds Cold, Dull, and dead. Not sure why but they may be the only label still using Noise Reduction. IMO any competent remastering specialist stopped using that garbage in the mid 90's. Personally I'd purchase the original Pergamon CD it sounds pretty good , and last time I checked was less than cost of a new Esoteric CD.

My comment refers specifically to the "gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight" and as such makes perfect sense. Have to say that your comment is pretty inflammatory. By what definition is Underwater Sunlight AOR, or even bland for that matter.



The bland remark was not my comment. I quoted the Original Poster. We are on the same side Mr. Monk.


Last edited by Flashpoint on Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 12:53 am 
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sparrow wrote:
Poland always was a cold album. Esoterics remaster sounds OK to me and in no way sounds lifeless & dull. Personally I find all the Esoteric releases I have (and there are quite a few) very good.



Compared to the Relativity the Esoteric is Colder and Duller. I did spend over an hour doing a back and forth compares of Poland and the Relativity has more energy, impact and realism the Esoteric has none of that. Please bear in mind comparison is paramount as without it no reference point exists. On CD I feel the Relativity sets the gold standard for Poland

For the money I spent on the Esoterics I really wish I enjoyed the sound as you apparently do. I tried, believe me, but they have all been rendered dull and somewhat lifeless by the outdated and amateurism practice of Noise Reduction. Other CD issues including the 20bit versions, and later remasters are not dull it is only the Esoterics. IMO they seem to have beginners doing their remastering and not experienced professional as NR is for rookies.

The art and the new linear notes are great, superb even, but I buy CD's for how they sound which is why I am no longer a customer of Esoteric. I just can not afford to spend more money on CD's with inferior sound to what I already own.



P.S. Mr Sparrow - My Apologies if I seem argumentative, but I just want those who already own these albums on CD to know they can save money unless they are interested in better art and liner notes. With the money saved they can buy an elusive Flashpoint CD :)


Last edited by Flashpoint on Tue Feb 21, 2012 4:39 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2012 7:20 pm 
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Flashpoint wrote:
sparrow wrote:
Poland always was a cold album. Esoterics remaster sounds OK to me and in no way sounds lifeless & dull. Personally I find all the Esoteric releases I have (and there are quite a few) very good.



Compared to the Relativity the Esoteric is Colder and Duller. I did spend over an hour doing a back and forth compares of Poland and the Relativity has more energy, impact and realism the Esoteric has none of that. Please bear in mind comparison is paramount as without it no reference point exists. On CD I feel the Relativity sets the gold standard for Poland

For the money I spent on the Esoterics I really wish I enjoyed the sound as you apparently do. I tried, believe me, but they have all been rendered dull and somewhat lifeless by the outdated and amateurism practice of Noise Reduction. Other CD issues including the 20bit versions, and later remasters are not dull it is only the Esoterics. IMO they seem to have beginners doing their remastering and not experienced professional as NR is for rookies.

The art and the new linear notes are great, superb even, but I buy CD's for how they sound which is why I am no longer a customer of Esoteric. I just can not afford to spend more money on CD's with inferior sound to what I already own.



P.S. Mr Sparrow - My Apologies if I seem argumentative, but I just want those who already own these albums on CD to know they can save money unless they are interested in better art and liner notes. With they money they save they can buy an elusive Flashpoint CD :)



or a flashpoint picture disc :D :D

http://www.recordshopx.com/artist/tange ... disc/used/

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2012 10:31 pm 
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Flashpoint wrote:
Chris Monk wrote:
Flashpoint wrote:
Chris Monk wrote:
owen wrote:
It has a prog rock/fusion vibe to it that I wouldn't have thought TD capable of after having gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight.


Surely you jest. :shock:


As Green Desert is a 1973/1984 hybrid and preceded Underwater which is from 1987, your comment to me does not make sense.

If you are going to get the Live Pergamon from Esoteric when it is issued, I hope for you they do a better job than they did on Poland. Esoteric's Poland to me sounds Cold, Dull, and dead. Not sure why but they may be the only label still using Noise Reduction. IMO any competent remastering specialist stopped using that garbage in the mid 90's. Personally I'd purchase the original Pergamon CD it sounds pretty good , and last time I checked was less than cost of a new Esoteric CD.

My comment refers specifically to the "gone all bland AOR with Underwater Sunlight" and as such makes perfect sense. Have to say that your comment is pretty inflammatory. By what definition is Underwater Sunlight AOR, or even bland for that matter.



The bland remark was not my comment. I quoted the Original Poster. We are on the same side Mr. Monk.

Many apologies. Sorry for the misquote. You can consider me suitably embarrassed.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:09 pm 
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Oops, it seems my throwaway remark displeased some.

To me Underwater Sunlight does sound like a change of direction for the band in that it sounds like very conventional band music, like what is usually referred to as 'AOR', which doesn't necessarily mean its poor. Rather than creative/imaginative/unique, its conventional and aiming at as wide an audience as possible by adopting a generic and more bland rock sound. It sounds quite good but the music doesn't have anything original to say. That's just my feeling on it. The Green Desert title track, by comparison, is experimental. Even though the raw material for the track might date from 1973, that recording, like Underwater Sunlight, dates from 1986, so it's fascinating in a way that such different styles were adopted at the same time.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 3:12 pm 
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A thought on Poland: I first heard this through a video of concert footage on youtube and I thought it sounded great. On the cd I got, though, the music sounded less lively or 'alive', maybe due to the sound having been compressed? That often happens with cd remastering.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Feb 29, 2012 8:33 pm 
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bigmoog wrote:

Hey, I have that! Actually, it's the only copy Flashpoint that I own. 8)

I would love to hear what Green Desert originally sounded like before EF messed with it. :x


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 7:04 am 
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owen wrote:
A thought on Poland: I first heard this through a video of concert footage on youtube and I thought it sounded great. On the cd I got, though, the music sounded less lively or 'alive', maybe due to the sound having been compressed? That often happens with cd remastering.


Esoteric uses Noise Reduction. Something that has long since been shunned by the majority of labels and by all experienced engineers. Has it's merits for ancient spoken word recordings but for music no dice.

Sfearical Sequence wrote:
bigmoog wrote:

Hey, I have that! Actually, it's the only copy Flashpoint that I own. 8)

I would love to hear what Green Desert originally sounded like before EF messed with it. :x


That would be excellent. A true TD grail.


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