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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:01 pm 
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24db wrote:
JD wrote:
24db wrote:
JD wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


This is a bit of a problem here as I think the regular posters are way too close to TDs music as die hard fans to look at things from other perspectives.
I've always found bad reviews of TD are met here with the kind of reaction you'd expect if they had been insulted personally. I see it also when people say they like an album and its followed by a series of replies saying how glad they are the other person likes it, I think some fans take this music as thier own ;)
Its not surprising though when Edgar describes his audience as "intelligent" and critics as "Dancing Grizzlies" or other wonderful things like "you are what you hear" , in which case I daren't look in the mirror when Inferno is playing ;)
I've read some of Stumps book and it isnt that flattering, but it really cant have sold that many copies anyway.
I'm looking forward to Edgars book, but I'm also a little anxious about how biased it may be.


Good points JD

Edgar's book biased? yep...it'll from his point of you. If you wrote it , it would be biased the same way if I wrote one...fact of life. However it should make for interesting reading...and more importantly for me, we'll get to read something new about our favourite band.


Yes absolutely but I hope it wont be biased in an untrutheful way regarding what past members contributed etc not that we would ever really know !


I think that's the point JD, up until now we've had next to nothing to go on. Bar Chris Franke is a nice bloke....let's believe 'everything he's ever said' or Edgar 'He's a bit of lad, and know's how to sell Coals to Newcastle' therefore everything he's ever said is utter rubbish and made up. Neither of these statments is 100% true and the more we have, the more we can decide what 'our TD history is'...I say our, because we all shape what we think we know round 'our version'...I'm aware I do it all the time. However (for me) a book (any book) should tell me something I didn't know, Edgar's book I'm pretty sure will do this.

As a collector of TD memorabilia (or junk as it's sometimes called), I've noticed over the last month or two that a small piece of information can change your whole idea about TD, for me that's exciting, in the same way that chatting to other fans in person is; you always learn something new, sometimes you find your opinions are totally wrong and you have to change them and from time to time something you thought was common knowledge shocks the other person, out of a particular comfort zone. If a small snippet can do this...what can a book do?


Well i really enjoyed those tour journals of Edgars that were posted a while ago, I'm hoping the book will be as entertaining as it is informative.
Now. ....I wonder if its really actually being written ???

:wink:

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:03 pm 
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TD are travelling...that's what I've been told ;)

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:07 pm 
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ant wrote:
:) I don't mind constructive criticism and would expect to see some albums slagged off but in this book it seemed like everything was slagged off after 1979. I just felt I had wasted money on it as I was never likely to read it again with so much negativity in it. You can put up with some but that was just too much, IMHO!! :)


Logos, Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect were not slagged off. Were they before 1979?


Last edited by rattymouse on Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:18 pm 
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Hobo wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


I agree with you Tom. It's just his opinion, although I have to admit he doesn't come across as a huge fan and his writing style is rather verbose.


I'd think you would have to be a big fan of TD to write a book about them. There is no money to be made writing about that band so why bother if you dont love it? Problem for him is, he was not able to move beyond into the Jerome years. I, myself had IMMENSE difficulty in doing so. I simply abhor a HUGE chunk of TD during Jerome's early years with the band. Virtuallly all of it is not Jerome's fault. However, I stuck it out (after a break) and have been back with the band for awhile now.

I think Stump goes to immense lengths to say as much as possible to leave the book on a good note. I recall him saying something like " you can never count out Tangerine Dream". That greatness is a part of Edgar Froese and that any moment, often unexpected moments, it can appear.

I suspect that Stump may be happy with today's TD.

Remember, when did his book end? Goblin's Club? Those are dark, dark times for TD. Worlds away from the ground breaking, earthshattering, celestial beauty of Rubycon, Poland, Logos, etc.

Reading a bit, I see Stump does not slag off (and says good things about): Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect.

See? Those here who critisize Stump say he ends his liking of the band after 1977. That is VERY VERY unfair and shows who is really biased.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 9:27 pm 
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I guess part of the problem is, this is not a history of TD, only (as the cover states), a critical discography. Therefore Stump has included the stuff he doesn't like, with the stuff he does (we each have our favourite periods). Without these inclusions, it would be a very short book indeed. I still find it interesting, even if I don't agree with all of it.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:24 am 
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rattymouse wrote:
Hobo wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


I agree with you Tom. It's just his opinion, although I have to admit he doesn't come across as a huge fan and his writing style is rather verbose.


I'd think you would have to be a big fan of TD to write a book about them. There is no money to be made writing about that band so why bother if you dont love it? Problem for him is, he was not able to move beyond into the Jerome years. I, myself had IMMENSE difficulty in doing so. I simply abhor a HUGE chunk of TD during Jerome's early years with the band. Virtuallly all of it is not Jerome's fault. However, I stuck it out (after a break) and have been back with the band for awhile now.

I think Stump goes to immense lengths to say as much as possible to leave the book on a good note. I recall him saying something like " you can never count out Tangerine Dream". That greatness is a part of Edgar Froese and that any moment, often unexpected moments, it can appear.

I suspect that Stump may be happy with today's TD.

Remember, when did his book end? Goblin's Club? Those are dark, dark times for TD. Worlds away from the ground breaking, earthshattering, celestial beauty of Rubycon, Poland, Logos, etc.

Reading a bit, I see Stump does not slag off (and says good things about): Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect.

See? Those here who critisize Stump say he ends his liking of the band after 1977. That is VERY VERY unfair and shows who is really biased.



100 percent on the money tom, I find these comments to be totally right imho.

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:02 am 
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One thing about PS's book that flumoxed me was the fact he liked Deadly Care. I paid a lot (at the time ) of dosh for it and although I still have it it is THE least played TD album I own. I must admit I ahven't read the book all the way through but read bits and pieces. I think even an english professor would struggle with it. I did start the book and got to page 3 or 4 and put it down scratching my head.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:57 am 
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sparrow wrote:
One thing about PS's book that flumoxed me was the fact he liked Deadly Care. I paid a lot (at the time ) of dosh for it and although I still have it it is THE least played TD album I own. I must admit I ahven't read the book all the way through but read bits and pieces. I think even an english professor would struggle with it. I did start the book and got to page 3 or 4 and put it down scratching my head.


The only thing I didn't like about the bit I read was that there were too many long words. I'm glad I didn't buy it. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:03 am 
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sparrow wrote:
One thing about PS's book that flumoxed me was the fact he liked Deadly Care. I paid a lot (at the time ) of dosh for it and although I still have it it is THE least played TD album I own. I must admit I ahven't read the book all the way through but read bits and pieces. I think even an english professor would struggle with it. I did start the book and got to page 3 or 4 and put it down scratching my head.


I havent heard Deadly Care in ages. Listening to it now. Hard to see why this would be the least listened to recording (there are many choices for that slot).

I never found Stump's book to use a particularly difficult (or interesting) vocabulary. I'll have to give it another read.

I wish he would re-release it; updated to include all the albums recorded since the end of the last edition.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 2:04 am 
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bigmoog wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
Hobo wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


I agree with you Tom. It's just his opinion, although I have to admit he doesn't come across as a huge fan and his writing style is rather verbose.


I'd think you would have to be a big fan of TD to write a book about them. There is no money to be made writing about that band so why bother if you dont love it? Problem for him is, he was not able to move beyond into the Jerome years. I, myself had IMMENSE difficulty in doing so. I simply abhor a HUGE chunk of TD during Jerome's early years with the band. Virtuallly all of it is not Jerome's fault. However, I stuck it out (after a break) and have been back with the band for awhile now.

I think Stump goes to immense lengths to say as much as possible to leave the book on a good note. I recall him saying something like " you can never count out Tangerine Dream". That greatness is a part of Edgar Froese and that any moment, often unexpected moments, it can appear.

I suspect that Stump may be happy with today's TD.

Remember, when did his book end? Goblin's Club? Those are dark, dark times for TD. Worlds away from the ground breaking, earthshattering, celestial beauty of Rubycon, Poland, Logos, etc.

Reading a bit, I see Stump does not slag off (and says good things about): Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect.

See? Those here who critisize Stump say he ends his liking of the band after 1977. That is VERY VERY unfair and shows who is really biased.



100 percent on the money tom, I find these comments to be totally right imho.


Thanks Mooger. I appreciate it.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 8:39 am 
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rattymouse wrote:
Hobo wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


I agree with you Tom. It's just his opinion, although I have to admit he doesn't come across as a huge fan and his writing style is rather verbose.


I'd think you would have to be a big fan of TD to write a book about them. There is no money to be made writing about that band so why bother if you dont love it? Problem for him is, he was not able to move beyond into the Jerome years. I, myself had IMMENSE difficulty in doing so. I simply abhor a HUGE chunk of TD during Jerome's early years with the band. Virtuallly all of it is not Jerome's fault. However, I stuck it out (after a break) and have been back with the band for awhile now.

I think Stump goes to immense lengths to say as much as possible to leave the book on a good note. I recall him saying something like " you can never count out Tangerine Dream". That greatness is a part of Edgar Froese and that any moment, often unexpected moments, it can appear.

I suspect that Stump may be happy with today's TD.

Remember, when did his book end? Goblin's Club? Those are dark, dark times for TD. Worlds away from the ground breaking, earthshattering, celestial beauty of Rubycon, Poland, Logos, etc.

Reading a bit, I see Stump does not slag off (and says good things about): Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect.

See? Those here who critisize Stump say he ends his liking of the band after 1977. That is VERY VERY unfair and shows who is really biased.



Not everyone here has criticised Stump,all some are merely saying is they dont rate the book,and im one of them :arrow: Mr Stump like any other individual is totally entitled to his opinion,but that does not mean everyone has to agree with it :arrow:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 12:53 pm 
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If there's no chance of a book being published in the literacy sense couldn't edgar do an on-line version that we could download similar to the download of music for a fee obviously.
That way true TD fans would appreciate it

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:25 pm 
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epsilon75 wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
Hobo wrote:
rattymouse wrote:
bigmoog wrote:
the problem is (was) that now and at the time there is NOTHING written on Tangerine Dream in a definitive way, 40 years a band and there is zippo on my coffee table, NIHIL on the bookshelf to totem my favourite music.....how very very depressing


I agree with you there Mooger. However, the lack of books on TD's is not Stump's fault. The level of vitrial displayed here over his book is really totally uncalled for. Sure, disagree with him, but respect him. He gives his honest opinion. He did NOT write a hatchet job on TD. Anyone who has witnessed a real hatchet job, filled with personal attacks, can see that.


I agree with you Tom. It's just his opinion, although I have to admit he doesn't come across as a huge fan and his writing style is rather verbose.


I'd think you would have to be a big fan of TD to write a book about them. There is no money to be made writing about that band so why bother if you dont love it? Problem for him is, he was not able to move beyond into the Jerome years. I, myself had IMMENSE difficulty in doing so. I simply abhor a HUGE chunk of TD during Jerome's early years with the band. Virtuallly all of it is not Jerome's fault. However, I stuck it out (after a break) and have been back with the band for awhile now.

I think Stump goes to immense lengths to say as much as possible to leave the book on a good note. I recall him saying something like " you can never count out Tangerine Dream". That greatness is a part of Edgar Froese and that any moment, often unexpected moments, it can appear.

I suspect that Stump may be happy with today's TD.

Remember, when did his book end? Goblin's Club? Those are dark, dark times for TD. Worlds away from the ground breaking, earthshattering, celestial beauty of Rubycon, Poland, Logos, etc.

Reading a bit, I see Stump does not slag off (and says good things about): Underwater Sunlight, Tyger, Deadly Care, and Deadsolid Perfect.

See? Those here who critisize Stump say he ends his liking of the band after 1977. That is VERY VERY unfair and shows who is really biased.



Not everyone here has criticised Stump,all some are merely saying is they dont rate the book,and im one of them :arrow: Mr Stump like any other individual is totally entitled to his opinion,but that does not mean everyone has to agree with it :arrow:


I quite agree. I dont think Stump's book is particularly good. I bet anyone could write a decent TD book better than he did. My point was specifically aimed at those who were mischaracterizing him and spreading falsehoods. It is very obvious that many have an axe to grind against the man for having his opinions that are not 110% glowing on everything TD has ever done.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:31 pm 
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Fair Comment :arrow:

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PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2007 1:55 pm 
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epsilon75 wrote:
Fair Comment :arrow:


You're good people.


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