Tangerine Dream
The Official Forum

   * FAQ    * Search   * Login   * Register

Post new topic   Reply to topic    Tangerine Dream Forum Index -> TD on recorded Music
Author Message
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 4:57 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: London, UK
David Gale wrote:
I notice that Pink Floyd did exactly the same on DSOTM and WYWH where the VCS3 is given numerous mentions while the Minimoog which is clearly in evidence is uncredited?

Pink Floyd usually just credited Richard Wright with 'keyboards' on their album covers in those days (if any mention was made at all). As the Minimoog is a keyboard instrument, it falls into that category. They obviously felt the VCS3 played an important part on DSOTM and as it isn't a keyboard instrument, they listed it.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 9:00 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:08 pm
Posts: 20418
Peter Beasley wrote:
David Gale wrote:
I notice that Pink Floyd did exactly the same on DSOTM and WYWH where the VCS3 is given numerous mentions while the Minimoog which is clearly in evidence is uncredited?

Pink Floyd usually just credited Richard Wright with 'keyboards' on their album covers in those days (if any mention was made at all). As the Minimoog is a keyboard instrument, it falls into that category. They obviously felt the VCS3 played an important part on DSOTM and as it isn't a keyboard instrument, they listed it.


always fancied getting a VCS3...I even wrote to EMS in the early 80's to get some info...the prices were eye watering though. Sadly all my stuff (brochures and manuals) got destroyed last year when we had a flood :( shame that, all I could save was an EDP Wasp manual and a Moog manual Ed Buller gave to me years ago.

I had a close up look at an old VCS3 last year in Berlin (at the Musical Instrument Museum), very nice and the patchng possibilties are brilliant, you can only imagine what a Synthi 100 would be like

_________________
http://thezest-2010.blogspot.co.uk/
small print


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 12:58 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri May 30, 2008 12:51 pm
Posts: 2
Peter Beasley wrote:
What makes RAH '75 so special is that it's the only decent official recording of TD at the height of their anologue/improvisational powers.
I can't think of another TD live album that isn't either edited, doctored, pre-programmed material or a studio creation. RAH '75 is none of these.



This was also the best remastering '3N' ever did for the 'Tangerine Tree' series (where the opening track appeared in full length for the frst time). He took the 61 minute BBC mono broadcast (which was a direct transfer from their master reel to CD! :) ) and joined it with a 1st gen. copy of the audience recording to make it complete, and his result was totally awesome (and even better and more dynamical after Jerome did the remastering for the official "Bootleg Box" version). There were plans for a third 'Bootleg Box', but unfortunately this wasn't meant to be.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:24 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:08 pm
Posts: 20418
Datmaster wrote:
Peter Beasley wrote:
What makes RAH '75 so special is that it's the only decent official recording of TD at the height of their anologue/improvisational powers.
I can't think of another TD live album that isn't either edited, doctored, pre-programmed material or a studio creation. RAH '75 is none of these.



This was also the best remastering '3N' ever did for the 'Tangerine Tree' series (where the opening track appeared in full length for the frst time). He took the 61 minute BBC mono broadcast (which was a direct transfer from their master reel to CD! :) ) and joined it with a 1st gen. copy of the audience recording to make it complete, and his result was totally awesome (and even better and more dynamical after Jerome did the remastering for the official "Bootleg Box" version). There were plans for a third 'Bootleg Box', but unfortunately this wasn't meant to be.


it's a shame that the only stereo tapes couldn't be found

_________________
http://thezest-2010.blogspot.co.uk/
small print


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:26 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:46 pm
Posts: 24409
Location: Apatheticville
24db wrote:
Datmaster wrote:
Peter Beasley wrote:
What makes RAH '75 so special is that it's the only decent official recording of TD at the height of their anologue/improvisational powers.
I can't think of another TD live album that isn't either edited, doctored, pre-programmed material or a studio creation. RAH '75 is none of these.



This was also the best remastering '3N' ever did for the 'Tangerine Tree' series (where the opening track appeared in full length for the frst time). He took the 61 minute BBC mono broadcast (which was a direct transfer from their master reel to CD! :) ) and joined it with a 1st gen. copy of the audience recording to make it complete, and his result was totally awesome (and even better and more dynamical after Jerome did the remastering for the official "Bootleg Box" version). There were plans for a third 'Bootleg Box', but unfortunately this wasn't meant to be.


it's a shame that the only stereo tapes couldn't be found


Has Mr Franke got them mate :wink:

_________________
RIP Edgar. I am going to miss you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 1:31 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:08 pm
Posts: 20418
epsilon75 wrote:
24db wrote:
Datmaster wrote:
Peter Beasley wrote:
What makes RAH '75 so special is that it's the only decent official recording of TD at the height of their anologue/improvisational powers.
I can't think of another TD live album that isn't either edited, doctored, pre-programmed material or a studio creation. RAH '75 is none of these.



This was also the best remastering '3N' ever did for the 'Tangerine Tree' series (where the opening track appeared in full length for the frst time). He took the 61 minute BBC mono broadcast (which was a direct transfer from their master reel to CD! :) ) and joined it with a 1st gen. copy of the audience recording to make it complete, and his result was totally awesome (and even better and more dynamical after Jerome did the remastering for the official "Bootleg Box" version). There were plans for a third 'Bootleg Box', but unfortunately this wasn't meant to be.


it's a shame that the only stereo tapes couldn't be found


Has Mr Franke got them mate :wink:


Gawd knows...will we ever know mate? According to Steve Harvey (and I refer you to the BBC interview from 1975 on my blog) the concert was recorded in stereo but only broadcast in Mono...so who knows perhaps the BBC still has it?...somewhere in their vaults, amount all the 1000's and 1000's of recordings.

With many thanks to Peter B:

Mike Sparrow (programme presenter): “And now to the moment we’ve all been waiting for, me especially in fact because it’s such an ambitious project, it quite blows my mind to even think about it. Tangerine Dream Live at the Albert Hall. Steve Harvey is the man to entirely take credit for this, because he produced the session, recording actually at the Hall and was indeed the man completely responsible for dreaming up the mad scheme in the first place. Why Tangerine Dream, Steve”?

Steve Harvey: “Well I’ve always been a fan of Tangerine Dream and the chance to actually record it was something quite astounding. I rang up Virgin Records and said “Look, how about recording this Royal Albert Hall gig? And to my amazement they said “Yes”. Tangerine Dream because they’re a band I think you have to listen to at home, preferably in a darkened room with a nice quiet atmosphere around you, with very little distraction and I think they’re the perfect band to listen to ….. particularly if you’ve got a VHF receiver and can get a good, high quality reception”.

Mike Sparrow: “Yeah, shame of course it’s not stereo, because the Royal Albert Hall was quad wasn’t it, glorious quad”.

Steve Harvey: “Oh indeed. In fact we’ve got a stereo recording, but unfortunately we go out in mono. But all the same, I think it should be a very nice concert indeed”.

Mike Sparrow: “What about the actual recording. Can you tell us something about it”?

Steve Harvey: “Well, this was done by the Broadcasting House O.B. engineers who normally work on Radio 3 and I think they were quite surprised in fact to work on a concert of this nature. They were a little dubious at first, but I’m glad to say that when they actually got down there and heard some of the music, they got very much into the spirit of things. And of course my grateful thanks to them, ‘Crootch’ and all the boys, who helped so much down at the Royal Albert Hall and of course without them, this recording wouldn’t be available”.

_________________
http://thezest-2010.blogspot.co.uk/
small print


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 11:44 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2006 5:42 pm
Posts: 4483
Location: Netherlands
Datmaster wrote:
Peter Beasley wrote:
What makes RAH '75 so special is that it's the only decent official recording of TD at the height of their anologue/improvisational powers.
I can't think of another TD live album that isn't either edited, doctored, pre-programmed material or a studio creation. RAH '75 is none of these.



This was also the best remastering '3N' ever did for the 'Tangerine Tree' series (where the opening track appeared in full length for the frst time). He took the 61 minute BBC mono broadcast (which was a direct transfer from their master reel to CD! :) ) and joined it with a 1st gen. copy of the audience recording to make it complete, and his result was totally awesome (and even better and more dynamical after Jerome did the remastering for the official "Bootleg Box" version). There were plans for a third 'Bootleg Box', but unfortunately this wasn't meant to be.


And that is a shame, it really is a good one. I finally added all the tt recordings to my ipod, so I can have a listen to them again without having a struggle with my wife and the cd's. :)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 4:59 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2007 8:13 pm
Posts: 1003
Location: Paris/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way
That Royal Hall concert is really amazing, indeed. If only TD could release it now as a double CD in the "Vault collection", with photos and explainations of the context (the so-called "technical problems", etc.) ! 8)

A strange thing : at the end of Part One, I don't hear clapping or end of music (on TT version), so did it continue for several seconds or minutes ? :shock: I guess somenone here has the answer...

_________________
A new cosmic address for the Master Dreamer...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 6:12 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 7797
Location: Bristol, Uk
Peter Beasley wrote:
David Gale wrote:
I notice that Pink Floyd did exactly the same on DSOTM and WYWH where the VCS3 is given numerous mentions while the Minimoog which is clearly in evidence is uncredited?

Pink Floyd usually just credited Richard Wright with 'keyboards' on their album covers in those days (if any mention was made at all). As the Minimoog is a keyboard instrument, it falls into that category. They obviously felt the VCS3 played an important part on DSOTM and as it isn't a keyboard instrument, they listed it.

I've got a DVD somewhere that shows Pink Floyd using the VCS3 whilst recording DSOM. I've got a feeling that it's Roger Waters using it, but could be wrong. Very interesting bit if video actually.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:08 pm
Posts: 20418
with respect...who gives a monkey's about Pink Floyd?...they might be famous but why do they get so much credit for using synths...the same goes for the Who...some reviews make out they almost invented the synthesiser, IMHO their use of electronic instruments was, is and will always be marginal...just used for the effect over their usual tracks (btw no insult to the actual music...that's very good). Compare that to TD who were genuine innovators and they get airbrushed out of most histories...only getting a footnote at best (usually for taking 3 modular's on the road)..Woopie ******** do, a 41 year old career, spanning practically the whole history of Electronic music and they get a sentence. It's a fair world ;)

_________________
http://thezest-2010.blogspot.co.uk/
small print


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:02 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:52 pm
Posts: 7797
Location: Bristol, Uk
I know you're talking tongue-in-cheek Andy but it's a good point. Pink Floyd aren't who I immediately think of when someone mentions syths but I suspect that they were many people's first introduction to them. Such a shame that not more people got into TD. It really winds me up when my mates tell me that they really like 'On the Run' on DSOM but won't give TD a listen.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2006 9:08 pm
Posts: 20418
Chris Monk wrote:
I know you're talking tongue-in-cheek Andy but it's a good point. Pink Floyd aren't who I immediately think of when someone mentions syths but I suspect that they were many people's first introduction to them. Such a shame that not more people got into TD. It really winds me up when my mates tell me that they really like 'On the Run' on DSOM but won't give TD a listen.


I guess at least PF used synths on several albums (I like the results btw...R.I.P Rick)...

what really does wind me up at that people like Mike Oldfield get labelled as EM innovators, or Florian Fricke gets another for being an 'EM expert'. Now I think a lot of this comes from very lazy journalism, let's just drop a few nuggets and names in the paragraph and hopefully they won't notice (to get the word count up? ;)). The biggest bug bear of mine (and strangely enough Klaus Schulze) is his and TD's music being linked to Karlheinz Stockhausen, as in a big influence. This is utter, 100% solid gold nonsense. I think in all the 100's and 100's of articles I've read in the group, they've actually mentioned his name 2 or 3 times. But come an article, there it is again, 'TD were deciples of Stockhausen' etc etc. Some journalists should know better. Perhaps they can't be bothered to do the research, perhaps they're just trotting out their party line or (and I'm being fairer than they sometimes deserve) perhaps they think everyone is so thick that they wouldn't have heard of the real people who were key infuences on the Berlin musicians. Wiki is prime example of this...listing Johannes for bringing in a Steve Reich infuence...whilst Edgar is just hendrix and the like. That's simplifying things to a point where the names mean nothing, dropping styles and ideas in to neat little boxes where they can slotted and in the process be forgotten about.

Back on topic (forgive me I'm getting paid by the word here ;)) the biggest name who's infuence on history books compared with what they actually did, has to go to Keith Emerson (no insult to KE and ELP fans), but really, what did he do? ok...amazing performer, fantastic technique...but what did he personally do for the progress of EM?, bar popularising the Moog. KS and TD (and some others) were the true innovators, and yet how many times do you see their names in EM history books? very few.

it's the old problem of a big name doing something small and everyone notices (as Edgar noted: Bowie changed his socks and everyone talked about it), whilst the (for want of better word) 'lesser' stars hardly ever get the credit for what they did.

_________________
http://thezest-2010.blogspot.co.uk/
small print


Last edited by 24db on Thu May 07, 2009 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 9:07 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 12:05 pm
Posts: 11363
Location: Glasgow
I know exactly where you are coming from Andy, and I commented on the dire situation a few times on this here forum.


I find it frustrating to the point that I read very little on EM as a whole for the very reasons you have bought up in your posts.

I have however enjoyed a few interviews with new people in the EM / Dance scene that you always find a reference to either TD or Edgar as a solo artist, being an influence.

The trouble is that those who are recognised as the 'this' or 'that' of Synth manipulation are the one's who've had a major hit, this is not to say some of them dont have great talent , but Ive always liked the fact that TD are mainly (excuse me EF :wink: ) an underground band :oops: .

BTW: This is why the Award was done ! ok it's not a grammy , but hey EF liked it ! :D :D


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 7:02 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Dec 24, 2006 2:46 pm
Posts: 24409
Location: Apatheticville
timer wrote:
I know exactly where you are coming from Andy, and I commented on the dire situation a few times on this here forum.


I find it frustrating to the point that I read very little on EM as a whole for the very reasons you have bought up in your posts.

I have however enjoyed a few interviews with new people in the EM / Dance scene that you always find a reference to either TD or Edgar as a solo artist, being an influence.

The trouble is that those who are recognised as the 'this' or 'that' of Synth manipulation are the one's who've had a major hit, this is not to say some of them dont have great talent , but Ive always liked the fact that TD are mainly (excuse me EF :wink: ) an underground band :oops: .

BTW: This is why the Award was done ! ok it's not a grammy , but hey EF liked it ! :D :D


EF liked it and that is all that matters 8) :D

_________________
RIP Edgar. I am going to miss you.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:18 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: London, UK
24db wrote:
with respect...who gives a monkey's about Pink Floyd?...they might be famous but why do they get so much credit for using synths...Compare that to TD who were genuine innovators and they get airbrushed out of most histories...

One exception to this was the review of 'Ricochet' by Miles in New Musical Express, where he declared that TD had far surpassed the Floyd in their use of electronics (comparing it to the recently released 'Wish You Were Here').


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic     Reply to topic    Tangerine Dream Forum Index -> TD on recorded Music All times are UTC + 1 hour [ DST ]
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3 [ 40 posts ] 

 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum


Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group | Design by Homestage